Interview with Amani Deghayes

Omar Deghayes is one of the five remaining British residents being held at Guantanamo Bay. Omar's family fled Libya for the UK in 1986, after his father was killed by Gaddafi's regime and the family suffered continual persecution. After three years of silence since Omar's incarceration, the Deghayes family have recently spoken about their ordeal. Additionally, information regarding the appalling conditions in which Omar is held, has been recently declassified, shedding more light on the abuse and torture that is rampant in Guantanamo Bay. We spoke to Omar's sister Amani about some of these recent revelations.

Click here to read more about Omar and his family.

CAGEPRISONERS.COM: Could you introduce yourselves and your brother to our readers?

AMANI DEGHAYES: My name is Amani Deghayes and my brother’s name is Omar Deghayes. I am the fifth child and he is the third child in my family. I have four brothers. We lived in Libya until 1986, after which we moved to the UK. My brother Omar is currently being held in Guantanamo Bay.

CP: Could you tell us briefly about your childhood in Libya - how much were you aware as children of the persecution of your family under Gaddafi's regime? What was the impact of your father's death on the family and on Omar in particular?

AD: In 1980 my father was executed, he was asked by the Gadaffi Government to spy on other people that he knew who were politically active, and he refused. In that sort of regime, if you refused to co-operate, that was seen as opposing the Government. So they came one day and picked him up and after three days we were told he committed suicide in prison.

When my father was killed, I was five, so I wasn’t as aware as the others, but I was aware that things had changed: People didn’t come round anymore. My cousins, who used to come by, used to be dropped off slightly further away from the house; they could not be dropped off at our house because their dad was too scared of being associated with us. My brothers used to say that people who used to come to our house all the time, started to ignore them. Monder [Omar’s younger brother] used to be picked on at school, by some children, they used to pretend there was a court and they were passing sentence on my dad. He used to get very upset about that. Straight after my father’s death, Omar had to go back to school and sit exams. He had to write an essay on the revolution and he started criticising the regime and how they killed our father. It was really dangerous for him to write that, and luckily there was a teacher at the school who knew us, and he intervened on our behalf and explained the situation to the headmaster. Abu Baker was accused of things in his school. They had military training and a bullet went missing and they said it was his fault. He was put in a cell. Gaddafi once said something about my brothers taking part in an anti Government demonstration outside Libya, which was not true because we were in Libya at the time.

My dad was very big on ideals such as democracy, free speech, challenging authority, not being a sheep. I remember even as a child less than five, being taught to challenge my teacher if she did something wrong. I remember once I got given a bad report and he told me go back to her and challenge it. It was unheard of in our society, where you don’t challenge anyone older than you. He was training us to speak whatever we believe in and try and speak the truth, whatever we believe to be the truth. He was very active with the trade unions before he was married and he was known locally as someone who helped people out.

Omar also used to be an outspoken person. He had a concern for justice and always wanted to be a lawyer. When we were younger, he always did pretend trials. If one of our cousins had said something, or there was some conflict, Omar would stage a trial, hear both sides. He was really fascinated with the whole justice system. He always wanted to be a lawyer, because it was the only way to legitimately protect people who had been wronged. As he was religious, when we were in Brighton, he did speak against many things he thought were wrong, such as terrorism in the name of religion. Whatever he saw was wrong, he would speak about it, he was not someone who was there just watching what was happening as if it had nothing to do with him.

CP: How were you able to escape Libya?

AD: It wasn’t until 1986, because that was the only time we were allowed to leave together as a family. Up until then, at least one person was being kept behind, almost like a hostage e.g. Omar would be allowed to go to Switzerland for his treatment (for his eye) and that wasn’t even straight away after my father died. It was only three years after that they allowed Omar to leave with my mother. There would always be someone left behind. Most people would just get a visa to leave Libya straight away. My mum and my eldest brother had to go for at least 3 months before hand, spending all day there, being told they had to come back again tomorrow, just to ok our visa, because we were on the blacklist, although we were not involved in any political activity after our father died.

Even as we were leaving at the airport, I remember some of the officials arguing with one another about whether we should be allowed to go together. It was very hit-and-miss whether we would be allowed to leave or not. There was an incident when I was actually returned at the airport, because of my name, I was told I was on the blacklist and I could not leave.

We travelled to Britain, as we had strong links with the UK for many years. We used to come and stay with British families. I used to come from about aged two and a half and Omar was about six at the same time, and stayed with the same family as me. Our father wanted us to learn English from an early age. So we had strong links with Saltdean, Brighton.

CP: Tell us about Omar's childhood and life in the UK?

AD: When he came here he was around A Level age. Although we learnt English when we were younger, it was not to A Level standard, so he found it quite difficult, especially because he was interested in the arts, these require a high level of written English. He did politics, law and economics A Levels. Then he went to study law at university.

He liked sport, playing football, horse riding. He loved to try out new things. He was very social and made a lot of friends. He was generally a happy person. He became more religious as he grew up and more involved in the Islamic society in Brighton and began to teach children Arabic. He used to visit prisoners in the prison in Brighton, not just the Muslims, but some non Muslims used to ring him at home. My mum told me that one guy was feeling really depressed and wanted to speak to Omar. He wasn’t a segregationist. He didn’t hate the non Muslims. Anyone who knows him knows that he is not the type of person who is very angry or hates people. He was very well read, used to read newspapers, current affairs, books on Islam and history. He also used to write Arabic poetry.

CP: What took Omar to Afghanistan in 2001?

AD: Omar planned on travelling because he was not really sure what he wanted to do, to work here or work abroad. He had a friend who was Malaysian, who offered him a job there. So he went to have a look there. Then he just ended up travelling. This was after he had completed his degree and his LPC (Legal Practice Course) but he still had some subjects to re-take for his LPC. Eventually he ended up in Afghanistan, he wanted to see what it was really like, as there was a lot of controversy about the regime there. I guess he was just curious.

CP: What do you know of the circumstances of his arrest in Pakistan?

AD: I believe he was arrested in Pakistan. He had left Afghanistan because war had broke our. His wife said that they were arrested and all their money was taken. Omar, his wife and child were sent to prison, his wife and child were subsequently released. Omar was taken to Kandahar and then Camp X Ray. We don’t know more than that.

CP: What has been the effect of his captivity on them? How are they coping?

AD: Omar’s wife is very upset, she doesn’t know what’s going on, whether he’s ever going to be release, what’s going to happen to him. Initially, it was very hard to even find her, because the phone lines were down, they were in Pakistan, and we didn’t know how to contact her. They are living in Emirates at the moment, with my eldest brother. Omar hasn’t really seen his son since he was very small, he is now almost three.

CP: Omar was then held at Bagram, what do you know about the conditions in which he was held there?

AD: He said that Bagram looked like a Nazi concentration camp. He was interrogated for days on end, threatened with tortured. He said he could hear the screams of other prisoners as they were tortured and interrogated.

CP: When and how did you learn he was being held in Guantanamo? What was your reaction?

AD: We were really shocked. We did have a clue though. One of my friends had gone on the internet and searched my name and found my brother’s name on America’s most wanted. This article came up saying he was wanted as part of a terrorist cell, and involved in a terrorist training video. It was really shocking. No one could imagine such a thing of Omar. I wasn’t even sure whether to tell my mother, because it would have been very upsetting. About six months to a year later, some officers from Scotland Yard came to my mother’s home and asked about Omar, and asked if they could search his room. They told her he was in Camp X Ray. The Red Cross contacted my mother with a note from Omar, although it wasn’t in his handwriting, which was quite worrying, saying he was fine and in Camp X Ray.

CP: How much communication have you had with him in these past two and a half years?

AD: It was hard to contact him. You can send messages through the Red Cross but everything was censored, all his letters were censored. My mother got letters every four months. It took such a long time for them to arrive. He once requested some Tafseer[Qur’anic exegesis] books. It was very expensive to post as they are very heavy. They were just sent back to us.

CP: Is there any indication he has received your letters?

AD: I don’t know to be honest, I assume so.

CP: What does Omar say in his letters?

AD: He stopped sending letters through the Red Cross. He didn’t really want to speak to them anymore. He started sending them directly. He is just very vague, that he is well, nothing of more substance.

CP: How has this ordeal affected you personally?

AD: I personally feel really depressed. I cannot believe this could all happen. All this that people take for granted – that we live in this country where there is rule of law, there are all these rights you’re supposed to have, but at the same time, if the Government doesn’t want to implement them, they don’t have to. International law, it seems as if it only applies to some people, and not others.

CP: What about the other members of your family?

AD: My mum is really upset, she is always crying. She just wants Omar to get out. He was always very close to my mother. She sees him as a wonderful son. He has always been very good to her. She is so worried they are going to send him to Libya. She has already been through all of this with my dad, and the reason we left Libya was to get away from all of that, and it’s just coming back. It’s a very real possibility that he might be sent to Libya, where he is very likely to be killed and will certainly be tortured there. I think for her, it was very distressing to hear about all the torture he has been through at Camp X Ray. I don’t think she really thought that would have been the case. She doesn’t really talk about all this, to be honest. Up until the press conference, she never really spoke about it much because I think that is how she deals with it, by not talking about it. It was the same with my dad, we never really sat down and talked about what happened, because the way my family deals with things is just to get on with it and not really dwell on it.

CP: What support have you received from Muslims in your community?

AD: People have said they are going to pray for him. But we haven’t really been publicising it, because it is quite dangerous for us as well to go public with it. There have been cases of people being killed in the UK by the Libyan Government. It’s also a very private thing, especially as not everybody has the right reaction. When you feel very raw about something it’s very hard to show that in front of people who may make snide comments. People who don’t know Omar they might say “There is no smoke without fire”, or “Why was he even there?” It’s sad that people don’t even think it’s important to go to a fair trial anymore.

CP: The family has kept a low profile for the past 3 years, what has prompted you to speak publicly about Omar now?

AD: It’s really our solicitor Clive [Stafford-Smith], he said it’s the only way we can help him. He reckons it’s more so of a political fight as opposed to a legal one, because the Government is just happy to just do nothing. The only way to put pressure on the Government is by going public and getting more support.

CP: What has been the response of the British government?

AD: Up to now it has been very blasé. That is, ‘we cannot do anything because he is not a British citizen, and it’s up to the Libyan Government to act on your behalf’.

CP: What is your response to that? Why do you feel that the British government bears a moral and legal responsibility to Omar and your family?

AD: It’s just ridiculous because he is a recognised refugee and they are supposed to be his surrogate state, which means they are supposed to protect him. I don’t know how they can pretend that that is not an issue. Omar has never been back to Libya. Even if he wasn’t a refugee, I think the situation would merit his becoming one, because in Libya, just the fact that he was in Camp X Ray is enough for him to be persecuted. His being religious is quite dangerous in Libya especially when you are active in the community like he was. Brighton is a place where lots of Libyans go to study English, Omar is friendly to everyone, he is quite well known.

CP: Why do you think they have shown little responsibility towards the British residents in Guantanamo from the outset?

AD: Until recently, they have shown little responsibility to their own British citizens, which is quite shocking. I don’t want to be paranoid, but I think it’s a racist thing. It seems that being Muslim or being religious is a terrible thing, and that if anyone is religiously active, it must mean they have links with terrorism and they hate the West and Democracy. This is outrageous. There are a lot of people in this country who are held without trial, just because they suspect them of something, which makes you think that if they have evidence, why don’t they bring them to trial. It’s not considered acceptable for anyone else except Muslims.

CP: Do you feel that the authorities have detained him for this duration in order to deprive him of his British residency status?

AD: I’m not really sure but they have wanted to interrogate him, we have evidence he has been interrogated by both Americans and British. I think they find it very useful having these people there because they are not restrained by the usual regulations. It’s also a scapegoat situation, there is this huge paranoia about people attacking the UK, they haven’t really managed to do anything useful. Keeping these people makes them feel like they are doing something.

CP: The rest of your family are British Citizens. What delayed Omar in applying for citizenship?

AD: He did apply but when they were processing his application, he wasn’t in the country and they wanted to interview him and so unluckily all this happened before that got finished.

CP: The Spanish Government has sought Omar's extradition. What is their basis for seeking the extradition and what is your response to the evidence?

AD: Up until recently we didn’t know much about the evidence, because he has not been charged with anything and they haven’t really come forward with anything. But I believe it is to do with a training video, and it is all a big mistake. Anyone who has seen the clip from it will know that it doesn’t even look like Omar, but it has his name printed on it, or some person called Omar Deghayes, spelt the same way. But we would be really happy if he could face a real trial, it’s just the fact that they can just hold him indefinitely without any rights at all.

CP: Omar's lawyer, Clive Stafford Smith, recently returned from visiting him in Guantanamo. What was he able to tell you about conditions in which Omar is currently being held in Camp V?

AD: Up until recently, he [Clive Stafford Smith] wasn’t allowed to speak about it, but recently he was able to speak about it because he got the information declassified. It seems really bad. In the news, the Americans have always maintained that they were keeping to basic standards of human rights, which just does not seem the case. But Omar has been beaten up several times, blinded in one eye, kept in isolation, and he is kept in isolation, not meant to speak to anyone. It’s shocking how far they are prepared to go. But a lot of stuff has been coming out from Iraq about the treatment of prisoners there.

CP: What can you tell us of the mistreatment and abuse Omar has suffered at the hands of the Americans?

AD: He has been blinded in one eye, he had mace sprayed at him by one of the military police officers, and then another pushed his finger into Omar’s eye, blinding him. He has been beaten up on a number of occasions and humiliated. He has had faeces smeared on his face. His English translation of the Quran was taken away from him, as they do not allow non-British citizens to possess an English translation of the Quran. Clive tries not to focus on this abuse too much because he knows it is difficult for us, but he says Omar is in good spirits, which is quite amazing.

CP: Has Omar been visited by British intelligence officials from the onset of his detention at Bagram and also in Guantanamo Bay? What was the nature of their visits?

AD: Clive mentions that he was visited by several British officials who interrogated him. Up until April 2004, Omar was visited a total of seven times by British officials. They kept saying, throughout all the visits “If you help us, you will be home soon.” They made a lot of false allegations; that Omar had travelled to Chechnya and Iran. This misinformation was then passed on eventually to the Libyans which has put Omar’s life in danger. Later, the questioning just became silly, questions like “What do the immigrants do in Britain?!”

CP: To what extent do you believe the British government has been complicit in his detention?

AD: They don’t seem to want to get him out. More than just shunning the issue, their going there and questioning him, it’s not really the action of a Government that is trying to help someone.

CP: Omar has also been visited twice by Libyan officials, could you tell our readers about what occurred during these visits?

AD: They threatened him and said to him that if he is sent to Libya they will kill him. They showed him pictures of other people they had in Libya who were being tortured. They mentioned the name of someone he knows and said that they have got him now. Things like that; information that was obviously given to them by the British and American officials.

CP: If the British government fails to act, Omar could be returned to Libya. What are your fears regarding this and how do you intend to challenge this?

AD: People in Libya who go to prison just never come out. We know of people who went into prison about 10 years ago, and no one knows what has become of them. Sometimes people are released, after they become mentally ill because of all the torture. Sometimes the family are told they are dead, sometimes they are just not told anything. So I think this is the sort of fate we can expect if he is sent to Libya. The British Government are aware of that, which is probably why they used the Libyan officials to put pressure on him. I don’t know what we can do if that happens. There is no way of challenging that in Libya. It’s just a dictatorship, whatever the Government chooses to do, they can.

CP: Tell us about Omar, what was his character like? What were the qualities that made him special?

AD: He is a very earnest person. He cares a lot for people and injustice and he is the kind of person who used to get really upset about situations such as Bosnia and other situations where people were being mistreated. He always planned to be a human rights lawyer, to help those who had been imprisoned wrongly. He was a fair person. If he thought he had done something wrong he always apologised to the person and made sure he did the right thing. He was a direct person, he would always tell you if you were doing something wrong, although at the same time he would not go round and hurt people’s feelings. If he felt he did, he would apologise. He was generous, and quite well known in the community as someone who would help you if you needed help.

CP: What message do you have for our readers?

AD: It’s really good that people are supporting those who are in Guantanamo Bay, as it is something that is not getting enough exposure considering the level of injustice. It’s great that people are trying to help, and that the more people that are concerned and do something towards it, hopefully things will change.

CP: Could you comment on our site?

AD: To be honest, until recently I didn’t like to look at it because it used to depress me, because my way of dealing with the situation is to avoid reading about it. All our efforts didn’t seem to be going anywhere, all the letters we wrote we just being brushed off, and I felt very down about it. But recently I looked at it, and it’s great. A lot of people told me about it – my husband and brother, and others they said that it’s really good website and you are doing a great job.

CP: Ms Deghayes, thank you for speaking to us.