Interview with Zaynab Khadr

Zaynab's brother, Omar is being held in Guantanamo Bay
The Khadr family has been through unimaginable turmoil ever since the War on Terror found Afghanistan to be its target. The family has been plagued by tragedy, abuse and betrayal. The father of the family, Ahmed Said Khadr was killed by the Pakistani army. The eldest son Abdullah, has been ‘disappeared’ and is thought to be held by the US as a ‘ghost detainee’. His younger brother Abdurahman was taken to Guantanamo Bay, working undercover or the CIA. Their other brother Omar still languishes in Guantanamo Bay, charged just days ago and now facing a military tribunal. The youngest son, Abdul-Karim was shot at the age of 14 by attacking coalition forces and is now paralysed for life. Their sister, Zaynab Khadr now speaks to Cageprisoners to tell us of their plight and how she has dealt with such tragedy.

Cageprisoners.com: Your family are all Canadian citizens, you and your brothers were born and raised in the West – so what led your family to Afghanistan in the 1980s?

Zaynab Khadr: I was born here, but I was never raised here. We left Canada for Bahrain when I was two years old, and in 1985 my father had to go to Afghanistan to do humanitarian work due to the war and so we shifted to Pakistan in 1985. That is how we originally got there in the first place.

CP: Can you tell us about your father’s humanitarian efforts and various projects in Afghanistan?
ZK: Earlier he was working with an Arab organisation and later on he was working for Human Concern International which was a Canadian NGO. They were mainly working in Pakistan but working a lot in Afghanistan because of the war also. From 1983 (he started going to Pakistan in 1983 but the whole family shifted there in 1985) until 1989, they set up orphanages, set up hospitals. In Afghanistan, they helped with irrigation, agriculture. After the Taliban came in, we shifted to Afghanistan and set up schools - including girls’ schools - and orphanages. We would collect money for hospitals that were in need. We would help provide food for children and vaccinations.

CP: Moving on to 2001, can you describe what happened to your family when the US forces took Kabul?

ZK: Most of the Arabs evacuated the major cities on September 12th 2001, as after the news of the September 11th attacks, they were expecting the Americans to bombard the area faster than they actually did. We didn’t completely evacuate, the families were out but we still had our belongings there so we would go back and forth. They bombarded day and night and there was no electricity. It was difficult especially for the locals. As for us, we were expecting that they would attack once we had heard the news and the statements the US had made, but the locals were caught by surprise. We moved from Kabul to Logah* *and from there we moved to another province. Through that year until the end of 2002, we reached the borders of Pakistan.

CP What were the circumstances of Omar’s capture? How old was he at the time?

ZK: The Americans had large rewards for the capture of any Arabs or any information so someone found out that the house that Omar was staying in had Arabs in it, and they informed the Americans. They came with militias and there was a firefight. The Americans later asked for air help and bombarded the house for four hours. The American story is that everyone was killed except my brother and he threw a grenade and killed an American. He was 15. This was July 27th 2002.

CP: When did you come to hear that he was detained?

ZK: We heard about it in August, mid or late Aug, but it was not confirmed until early September.

CP: Could you describe the moment for us in which you and your mother were informed he was held in Guantanamo? What was your and your family’s reaction?

ZK: My mother was in a different place. She was still in the border area. I had come to one of the main cities in Pakistan. I was in Lahore, because my daughter needed healthcare. My uncle told me that, ‘We have news that Omar is with your brother Abdur Rahman.’ I said to him, ‘No, that can’t be possible because I had just received a letter from my father saying that they were all okay.’ I didn’t expect anything to have happened. My uncle said, ‘No, go and check the internet.’ I asked around and people were saying that there are rumours that he has been killed or captured because he has been missing for a while. My uncle said to me, ‘We know that your brother is with the Americans’. When I went back to the border area where my mother was, she knew that he was arrested but did not know where, when and why or any other details. I remember my father saying, ‘You know Zaynab, we think your brother is in Guantanamo and I don’t know how I am going to tell your mother.’ So we waited for a couple of days, and just said to my mother, ‘Mama, we should just accept whatever is going to happen, he may be with the Americans, he may be in Guantanamo Bay and we have to be ready for it.’ Then it was in the news that he was in Guantanamo Bay and we told her. It’s kind of difficult but it’s what you expect when you are living in circumstances like that.

CP: What was her reaction?

ZK: She didn’t really react because it was simmering for a long time and you are expecting to hear it, though no one is saying it, but deep down you know it.

CP: Did you receive any letters from Omar?

ZK: Yes, we receive them once in a while.

CP: Is there any indication he has received your letters?

ZK: Yes, he has.

CP: When did Omar last write and what did he say?

ZK: The last letter we got from Omar was about three weeks ago [Editor's note: this interview was conducted some months ago, before Omar participated in the hunger strike]. He is fine. He is good. He always says, ‘I am okay. Mama you have to have sabr (patience) and be mindful of Allah.’ He has memorised the Holy Qur’an. He seems to be very content with the situation he is in. His morale is pretty high. He says, ‘Mum, I am feeling good, my morale is high, I do my exercise, I eat well.’ He says that all of his injuries have healed pretty well, except for his eye which needs surgery because there is shrapnel behind the eye. Other than that he seems to be fine. His lawyer visited him recently and he said that he is well, and in good spirits. He said that he has grown his hair long and is now 6’2.

CP: Your brother Abdur-Rahman was also held in US custody but was subsequently released. He was first detained in Bagram – what treatment did he endure there?

ZK: Actually I don’t really know what happened to him in Bagram because he doesn’t really talk about it much. Whenever we bring up the subject, he says, ‘It’s a difficult thing, don’t think it’s easy. It’s really difficult. You cannot imagine what it is like no matter what anyone says.’ But other than that, I do not know.

CP: He was then taken to Guantanamo which he described as the “only time in my life I had wished for the bullet”. What was Abdur-Rahman able to tell your family about life in Guantanamo generally?

ZK: Well, he says things, but for a start my brother Abdur-Rahman is the kind of person who cannot take hardship. He is not a person who would stand up in hardship and he breaks down very quickly. That’s why he might have said that he may have wished for the bullet, his brother is much younger than him and seems to be holding on much better than he did. But he said things were really difficult and he would get angry sometimes and could not do anything. The cages they were in were very tight and they could hardly stretch. They weren’t allowed to talk sometimes and if they did anything they would put you in isolation, They would actually aggravate you so they would have an excuse to put you in isolation. He said it was more mentally difficult than physically.

CP: What was he able to tell you about Omar’s condition?

ZK: They never saw each other.

CP: What was Abdur-Rahman’s opinion about the inmates in the camp? From his encounters with them did he believe that they were all really the ‘hardened al-Qaeda terrorists’ as the US would have us believe deserved to be detained?

ZK: Abdur-Rahman has a different way of thinking to us. We may say to him, ‘Abdur-Rahman you did something very wrong’, and he would say, ‘Well, I could have been stubborn like the people over there, and I would end up staying like they were.’ It was mainly his aim to get out and it didn’t matter to him how he was to get out. But he knows as well as everyone else that some of the detainees over there might have been al Qaeda, but not all of them and most of the people are innocent. He said, ‘I know that some people have said they are guilty, when deep down I know that they are innocent and they had nothing to do with it.’ Some of them had only been there weeks or months. Some had just arrived and didn’t know anything about anything.

CP: What was your reaction to Abdur-Rahman’s revelations on national television a year ago that he worked as an informer for the CIA and publicly denounced your family? When did you come to hear about this?

ZK: Well, I heard about it when he said it the first time which was very embarrassing for us. We did not expect something like this from a family member and especially because a lot of the things he said were not true and they did not just affect him, they affected a lot of Muslims as well, including his own brother. Even though after saying them, he claimed that they were lies. But whatever came out of his mouth was put on paper and nothing could change that. That is a sister’s point of view but Islamically what he did was ‘haram’ (forbidden). They had never harmed him or done anything wrong to him to deserve such treatment.

CP: What is your relationship and that of the rest of your family like with Abdur-Rahman now?

ZK: Well, it’s not very good. We try to get along but ever since our childhood we were never close, but this act has even distanced our relationship further. We are sort of two people going in two different directions, but we have to keep on holding onto each other. We think very differently to each other and it’s very uncomfortable to live in the same house and not know if your brother if he is with you or against you. It’s a very uneasy feeling. It’s not very nice.

CP: Your mother said in an interview last year about Abdur-Rahman that “he’s not bad; he’s just different” – how has this altered her opinion of him?

ZK: She is a mother first of all, and in all he is not bad, that is true. But his desires are way stronger than he can control. He does things just because they feel good or because he feels like it without thinking of the consequences or how they might affect others around him. How has it changed her? She did not expect it. She was very hurt and she always brings it up, especially when he is very difficult or does not listen. We have to struggle and have patience with him but she also says ‘He is my son, I cannot just close the door on him, and he is a Muslim no matter what he has done. If I kick him out, then I could never forgive myself, it is our responsibility to take care of him’. We have to be with him as if he were a sick person and we have to take care of him and nurture him to the right path, reminding him of who he is and who his father was, and try to find the goodness in him and strengthen that so that one day he will change.

CP: Does he have any regrets about his actions?

ZK: I think sometimes when he really feels lonely, yes, but I think sometimes when it’s all the media coverage and in the spotlight, it sort of compensates for that, and he says ‘I didn’t do anything wrong. Everybody believes it, so what is wrong if I said it?’ But I think that deep down he does regret it. He says that he sees his father in his dreams, always really angry with him, he sees Abdullah in his dreams always angry at him too. So I think he does feel bad about what he did but he doesn’t like to admit it to himself.

CP: Abdul-Rahman has said that “we are an al-Qaeda family now. We had connections to al Qaeda”– is that an accurate statement?

ZK: No, that is not accurate. Our discussions with him are always about this statement. The only thing the media have against us is his statement that we are an Al Qaeda family and we are not. So just because we lived near these people, it does not necessarily mean we are bad. But the truth is the truth, if I was from Al Qaeda I would have stood up and said it, I have nothing to hide, but I am not a member of al Qaeda so why should I claim to be something that I am not.

CP: Since his interview, a lot has been made about your family’s relationship with Bin Laden? Can you put this into perspective?

ZK: Our relationship with the Bin Ladens is not really a relationship. My father was in Afghanistan at the same time, so they have some common ground in that they worked in the same area or helped each other financially. But later on when we in Afghanistan and we were doing our NGO work, Bin Laden was living with his people and it was not much of a relationship with them. We lived in the same compound that he had lived in but after he had left it and we would visit them and meet them. They were Arabs and we were Arabs. It was a foreign country so it was good to find someone who speaks your language and who had the same likes and dislikes. So this was mainly our relationship with him. And it was not just him, there were a lot of other families that lived in that area, and even over there, it was not such a big deal to be able to visit his house - everyone went to Bin Laden’s house. Anyone would visit any family whenever they wanted, and it wouldn’t really matter who that person was.

CP: While your brothers were held in Guantanamo, the rest of your family remained in Pakistan. What was life like for you and your mother in Pakistan at this time? How did you manage to cope and make ends meet?

ZK: In Pakistan, we mainly lived in the border area, and it was very difficult. My father was there but physically it was difficult. Mentally it was generally calm, although we did worry about Abdur-Rahman and Omar’s whereabouts. But we were with people who believed in the cause of Islam and that we had to be unified and strong, and help each other. They welcomed us in their homes; even though they were very, very poor people, very illiterate, they shared with us what little they had. It’s not even like being in Pakistan in the city or in the village, but it’s way up in the mountains; there is no electricity or water and people do not know anything about anything. It is like living a thousand years in the past but still people think that we are their Muslim brothers and sisters and we will live with them no matter what the circumstances. They would sacrifice their lives in order to protect us. Alhamdulillah (all praise is due to Allah), Allah helped us and that was enough for us.

CP: When and how did you come to learn about your father’s death? What was your reaction?

ZK: On the 2nd October my mother heard that there was an attack in the area where my father was living. There were so many false reports before that. She kept saying, ‘Something is happening, we should make dua (supplicate to Allah)’ We kept telling her, ‘Mum, it’s just propaganda; nothing is happening, everything is fine.’ We had received a letter from him, a couple of days before that asking for some jackets and clothes and home made food. We wanted to send them but my brother said that he couldn’t get it there because the roads were blocked. My mother was worried but we couldn’t do anything.

On the 6th October I remember we were in our house and my brother knocked on the door and said that there are some women who want to see you. So they came in and they went into another room. Everything was quiet which was very strange, but we weren’t really expecting anything. Then Abdullah called me and said ‘Go call my mum’. She was just quiet, and then tears started to stream down her face and we just hugged each other. Abdullah comforted her saying, ‘Don’t worry Mama, we’ll be fine, we’ll be fine’. It was very – I can’t say shocking – but we missed him very much. It is very nice to know that Allah has granted him his wish. He wasn’t depressed or anything but he used to say towards the end of his life, that he was tired of this world and he wanted to go.

CP: Was his body eventually returned to your family?

ZK: No

CP: What happened to Abdul-Karim at this time?

ZK: He had been injured and he had been taken by the Pakistani army back to Bannu and from then on back to Islamabad. But we did not find out anything about him until after his capture.

CP: How did your family come to find Abdul-Karim after that?

ZK: We tried to go through the court, the press, put pressure on the Government but eventually in some way, he had found a way to contact the embassy or the embassy had applied some pressure to get access to him. They went and visited him in the hospital. One of the men who went to visit him had a cell phone with a camera on it and asked permission to take a picture of him. He was granted permission so he took a picture of him. He brought us back the picture and he said to us, ‘I have seen your brother’. We asked him, ‘How do you know?’ He said, ‘I know it was your brother. There was another man there who knew you personally and it is Abdul Karim.’ When I asked Abdul Karim later on what happened, he said that these two men came in, one was a Canadian and one was a Pakistani. The Canadian said his name was Jim and he was from the Canadian High Commission. Abdul Karim said ‘I didn’t trust him, and I asked for his id’. So he showed him his card, and he asked ‘Do you know that man?’ And Abdul Karim said ‘No.’ He said, ‘This is Aqeel Masood’, and Abdul Karim said ‘Oh yes, I remember him.’ He said to us that at that moment, he knew that we would find out about him.

CP: Could you tell us about the state in which you found him and his health in the subsequent months?

ZK: Abdul Karim had been shot in his back and the bullet went through from the left back corner and came out the right front corner, going through all his inner organs. So he was really badly injured on the inside. They fixed him up pretty well in Pakistan, but his spinal injury still is there. He cannot walk. His lower half is completely paralysed. He had no control over his lower pass, including his inner organs such as his urinary tract.

CP: What is his current condition?

ZK: His upper body is fine, although he gets problems with his kidneys. He still cannot walk. He is in a wheel chair at least for now. He is mentally okay. But he is very lonely and very depressed here, but we are trying to make ends meet.

CP: What prompted your mother to return to Canada last year?

ZK: My mother came to Canada because that was the only way to get him out of the Pakistani hospital. He was in an army hospital. No one was allowed to see him or visit him. He was on the infectious ward, with a lot of security around him. We only saw him three times in two months and it would go on forever. The embassy would have to go through Foreign Affairs; Foreign Affairs would have to refer to the army, back all the way, until we would get permission and we would have security ringing us. We would only be able to see him for 45 minutes or an hour. When we asked for him to be released, they said no, only on the condition he was shifted to Canada. My mother thought it was worth the sacrifice.

CP: Omar met with his lawyers for the first time last November – what were they able to add to the picture we are getting of his detention?

ZK: Well, they added the fact that he might have been tortured, and that it is difficult for him, although he doesn’t mention this in his letters. His health is fine as far as he is concerned, but other than that they have nothing new to add about his current situation. The Canadians are not willing to stand up on his behalf and the Americans are being very stubborn about the fact that he was a juvenile when they arrested him.

CP: Have you been able to gauge anything about Omar’s condition from the released detainees?

ZK: We have not met with any of the released detainees in person. One of my friend’s fathers was a detainee but she said he had not been in close contact with him, and had only seen him from far away.

CP: Recently some shocking accounts of the US’s treatment of Omar were declassified. Can you tell us about these in more detail?

ZK: We only know as much as the lawyers and the press have said. About the questioning, that he was shackled in painful positions, that he was used as a human mop [i.e. to mop up urine], threatened with rape and torture. He said they had threatened to send him to Egypt or Syria so that they could get the information out of him. That’s more or less all we know.

CP: What has been the response of the Canadian government to Omar’s case generally?

ZK: Nothing. All they say is ‘Yes we are doing something about it,’ but in reality they sent someone from the CSIS to question and interrogate Omar, something very strange. None of the other countries have actually sent their own intelligence agencies to interrogate their people. Even if they did not mind America’s treatment of him, they did not make it a point to show their dislike of it. Rather the Canadians seem to be fine with it and even assisting them.

CP: It was recently revealed that Canadian intelligence officials have visited and interrogated Omar a number of times in Guantanamo. What was your/your family’s reaction to that?

ZK: Our reaction is the reaction of anyone else. We do not like it, but what can we do. We do believe that what Omar is enduring is in Allah’s cause and Allah can help him. It is not that we have hope in the Canadian Government, we have hope in Allah. If they do something that is Allah’s Will, and if they don’t, Allah is keeping it that way for a reason.

CP: Canadian officials first visited Omar in 2003. Could you tell us about what happened in that visit?

ZK: We don’t know about the officials visiting Omar, we only found out when the lawyers told us that Omar had been visited by officials. But none of the details have been mentioned to us.

CP: The CSIS argues that it needs to be able to interrogate Omar due to national security reasons – what would be your response to that?

ZK: What kind of threat to national security is Omar or any of us for that matter? Have we done anything to disrupt national security, do they have anything against us that proves that we are a threat to national security? The answer to all of this would be no, they do not have anything against us or against Omar. But if they want to believe something, there is nothing we can do to change that.

CP: To what extent do you believe the Canadian government have been complicit in his detention and abuse?

ZK: Well maybe they didn’t assist them, but they did not have a problem with it either. They have not objected to us.

CP: Have you received any support from the Canadian public?

Very, very, very little support from the Canadian public in general, Muslims and non-Muslims. Actually they are very angry with us and angry at the Government for allowing us to be back. It’s a very difficult situation when you are living in a place where you know you are not wanted and people are actually fighting to get you out of the country.

CP: How would you respond to those who argue that your family has forfeited its right to government assistance by your absence from the country for the past 20 years in Afghanistan, or in light of alleged links to terrorists or in light of some of the comments that your family have made?

ZK: That is not true because the last time I was in Canada was 2001. The last time my mother was here was 2001. The last time my father was in Canada was a little earlier than that, 1999. He had tried to come in 2000 and 2001 but he had some problems with the Pakistani authorities when they took his passport for some visa problems and it stayed with them too long so we came and he did not. Other than that I don’t think they have anything against us – we pay our taxes and our papers were always in perfect order.

CP: Why do you feel that the Canadian government has a responsibility act on Omar’s behalf?

ZK: Well, as a national of any country, the first thing they say is that you have rights. One of the main rights is that the Government should protect you in foreign lands. That is the responsibility of the Canadian Government. Omar has the right, he was born in Canada. He was taken from a foreign land, to another foreign land, no matter what he did, he was a juvenile. Plus no matter what he did, it was a time of war, so even if they did not want to treat him as a juvenile they would have to treat him as a prisoner of war. If it was anyone else, wouldn’t their country intervene on their behalf, at least to say, ‘He’s our citizen and we have a right to know what is happening to him and why it is happening to him.’ But the Canadians haven’t intervened at all.

CP: Have you received much support from the Muslim community in Canada?

No.

CP: What would you say in light of the comments of one Canadian Imam that your family have done “lots of damage to themselves and the Muslim community here”?

ZK: What can I say? First of all, we have never lived in Canada so whatever harm has come to the community in Canada, it was never meant to happen to them or anyone else. We do not mean any harm to any Muslim or to anyone in the world for that matter. As for the damage we have done to ourselves, we do not think that what has happened to us is damage. We believe that whatever we did, we did for the sake of Allah, and for everything done for the sake of Allah, no matter what the consequences or the suffering is, is not damage. It is a hardship. It is a test we are supposed to pass. We will only pass it if we believe that whatever Allah’s gives us is the best for us, no matter what difficulty it is for us, we will have patience. If the Muslims here want to see this as damage, then I cannot help it but I would like it for them to go back to their Qur’an and Sunnah and see what it is that we have done that is against Qur’an and Sunnah to cause anyone damage or pain..

CP: The families of some of the US soldiers killed at the time of Omar’s arrest are suing your family. Your lawyer described their move as “opportunistic” – could you comment?

ZK: Of course it is opportunistic. They are saying that at this time, when my father’s assets are still frozen, and we have no way to fight back. At the same time they are only looking at it from their point of view. The man who is suing us has lost an eye, but he has not thought he may have cost my brother an eye as well, as well as other injuries and robbed him of his freedom and his young age in prison. This is a war, you do not sue people in wars because if people were to sue people in wars then I believe that Palestine would have a lot to sue the Israelis for and so would the whole world have to sue America for – in Afghanistan so many people have suffered, in Vietnam, there is a lot to sue the Americans for. It is as if you could go and shoot someone in their own house and sue them for shooting you back.

CP: Turning to the case of your eldest brother, Abdullah – where was he at the time of your father’s death? What happened to him in the months after that?

ZK: Well, he was in the same area we were in, which was about three hours from where my father was. After that he was around, and he did whatever he was doing, helping the brothers in the area, taking care of us. Later when we went to Islamabad he came with us, he was there between Islamabad and the tribal areas. But he was not doing much.

CP: Tell us about the allegations that Abdullah was the suicide bomber who killed a Canadian soldier in Kabul? What action did he take to refute that?

ZK: It’s impossible because my brother was alive and around us at the time, Secondly, my brother does not believe in suicide bombing. He did not believe it was the way of doing things, at least not for him. As for what he did about it, he tried to refute this on CBC saying ‘If I was a suicide bomber I wouldn’t be here talking to you now.’

CP: Abdullah spent these months on the run and in hiding, fearing for his life – did you have any contact with him in that time? How often were you able to speak to him/see him?

ZK: It’s not true. He never actually spent three months on the run and in hiding. We were always on the move, and he always had to watch where he was and what he said, where he used the phone and where he spent his nights, but the idea he was on the run is not right. He was on the move and always on alert.

CP: When did you come to hear of Abdullah’s capture? What was the reaction of yourself and your family?

ZK: He called me on October 14th then again on the October 15th, after iftar (meal at the time of breaking the fast) he went to visit a friend. He did not come home that night. I thought he’s got to be somewhere, don’t worry about it. The second day, my friend whose brother it was who Abdullah visited, told me, ‘Your brother went out that evening and didn’t come back’. I thought everything was fine, and that we were just making something out of nothing. But then it went on and on, and they didn’t show up. We tried to call his mobile phone, asked his friends but no one knew anything. My friend told me he said he was going to the market for 20 minutes and that he would be back. Also a friend of theirs, said that the other guy who was with them said he was going for 20 minutes then coming back .So they had gone to meet somewhere but something must have happened.

CP: Can you tell us what you know about the circumstances of his capture?

ZK: Nothing definite until now. We have been trying to contact the Pakistani authorities but whenever we contact them, they say this is a subject beyond their limit. They say, ‘We will not answer questions about that topic’. Nobody really knows where he is.

CP: Your lawyer said that the Pakistani officials offered to hand Abdullah over to the Canadians – what was their response? Why do you think they responded in this way? How did your family react to that?

Well, as far as I know, which is not an official source, we asked people to do a search; one of the things we were told is that Pakistani officials, after interrogating him, told the Canadians he is a Canadian, they could have him. But the Canadians said they didn’t want him. It was either that or he was given to the Americans.

CP: What allegations have been made against Abdullah, if any?

ZK: Well, nothing is actually solid. The only allegation they have is that he was a trainer for Al Qaeda which is a lie.

CP: What are your concerns about the manner in which Abdullah is being held?

ZK: I don’t even know the manner in which he is being held, whether he is being held or been kidnapped or under survellience. We don’t know if he is with the Americans or the Pakistanis, if he is in Bagram or in Guantanamo. We don’t know if he is alive.

CP: What action do you intend to take now on behalf of Abdullah?

We contacted the Red Cross. We contacted Amnesty International. We have our laywers. We are trying to get it as much into the open as we can.

CP: Three brothers in US detention at one time or another; One brother shot and paralysed. Your father killed. Could you try to give our readers insight into the ordeal your family has endured for the past three years?

ZK: It’s been very difficult three years when you feel that your whole life has been turned upside down in such a short time. Three years when you lose your home, your surroundings, your friends, your brother, your father, your life, your security in three years is quite bad. Then you end up in a land where you are not really wanted and they don’t think like you, and you are condemned for your thoughts, not for your deeds and actions. Those years were very hard but hardening at the time, as children. There is not a house nor a family we know that has not had a death or a prisoner until now. Everyone is suffering and the Muslim Ummah is just watching. This is the saddest thing. That the Muslim Ummah is watching and it’s not even condemning the actions.

CP: What has been the lowest point for you in the past three years?

ZK: The hardest thing to deal with is my brother Abdur-Rahman, when he went on TV and said he was working for the CIA. That really hit us hard. It was a stab in the back where we did not expect to be stabbed. We know our enemies and we knew who was with us and who was against us and we did not expect it from there. Not at that time, when my dad had just been killed and Abdul-Karim was still missing. Times were very difficult; we had no home, we could not find a place to live, nobody would rent us a house because everyone was afraid of us, and our family was very scared to talk to us on the phone. What he did was very, very painful, and for sometime we would just sit and think all that my dad has been building for the past ten years, he had just broken it and we would have to start from zero again.

CP: What advice would you give to the families of other detainees in the same position?

ZK: Never to lose hope. But besides that, do not put your hope in humans, in any laws or the government or lawyers, Just put your hope in Allah, because, We are Muslims and we will always be treated as Muslims no matter what we do. There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim; you are either a Muslim or not a Muslim. It doesn’t matter how you dress or what you eat; Allah said in the Qur’an, “They will never accept you until you follow their religion.” So unless we leave our religion and follow theirs they will never accept us the way we are nor do anything for our own good without a price. But we should always have faith and hope in Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) that whatever befalls us, it is for our own good, though we cannot see it, because Allah knows best. We would probably not understand the good in being in prison, or being shot or captured, but there is a good in it although we cannot see it. Allah does not do anything to harm us.

CP: Tell us about Omar – what kind of person was he? What qualities made him special and unique? What do you miss most about him?

ZK: Omar is a very sweet, gentle person, very easy to get along with, and everyone loved him very much. He was very helpful, cheerful, and does not like to hurt anyone’s feelings. At the same time, he was very righteous and would always do what’s right, not matter what. He would not accept any wrong, no matter who was doing it. He was a very good person.

CP: And Abdullah?

ZK: Abdullah was very soft spoken, very quiet and very into himself. He likes his computer very much. He knows a lot about what is going on, but he doesn’t show it a lot. He is helpful at home and helpful around others. He would work for hours endlessly and never complain. He would help anyone who needed help and would not expect any gratitude from anyone. He would lose his temper sometimes but more or less he was a very good person.

CP: What are your greatest fears for your brothers?

ZK: Fitnah (tests of life). I would not like them to ever change their path or regret the life that we have been living and the way we were raised. Even though it has cost them a lot of hardship it is worth it, as it is for the sake of Allah. I would fear that they would one day change their beliefs. We have to stick to the right path and keep going no matter what the hardships are.

CP: Have your family had any significant dreams about your brothers since they have been detained? Could you tell us about these?

ZK: Mainly we see Abdullah and Omar around. Sometimes someone would wake up and say, ‘I see Abdullah and Omar they are back. They are happy. They are doing this or that.’ Yes, we would see Abdul Karim walking sometimes, and Abdul Karim would see himself playing with Omar. I wouldn’t say it is anything significant; mainly memories of the past, or what would have been if things hadn’t been like this.

CP: A year ago you said that you “cannot imagine yourself” returning to Canada, given you had spent the last twenty years living in the Afghan-Pak? What’s changed – what prompted you to come back home?

ZK: Well, I still never believed I would be here, but the fact is that I stayed there because I thought it would be for the good of my sister and my daughter. Second, I felt my presence beside my brother would be better for him. Plus people there were supportive of us, we were never unwanted. But after my brother went missing, it was very difficult as I was alone with my sister and daughter and we were the only girls, there was no man around. People didn’t feel we were heavy but it was a great responsibility and they were afraid they could not take it on. My brother Abdul Karim was very emotional and wanted us back. So I thought that my presence with my mother at this time would be better then my presence there. So I decided it might be for the best to come back.

CP: You published your email address in the Canadian press and invited the public to email you – why did you do this? What kind of responses did you receive?

ZK: I thought that the people have this picture of us as these very arrogant, selfish, scary people who did not care for anyone. So giving my email address out would give everyone a chance to throw what they had at me and see what they could get out of it. I like to know the point of view of people and I like them to know my point of view in return. Sometimes you fear what you don’t know and what you don’t understand. I want people to know that we can be different but that does not make us bad. We can be different but we have to accept each other for our differences. This is what freedom is all about. As Canadians, even if as a non Muslim, if I can respect you for what you are and accept you even if I don’t like it, you should have enough in you to respect and accept me as well. As for the responses, I got a lot of very bad responses but once in a while I would get something good. It was strange that some people would find it in their hearts to say, I know you are different and we may not agree on everything but you should know this is your country and we welcome you back.

CP: The Canadian government has denied both you and your brother passports; they have seized your laptop. How do you feel about that?

ZK: Actually, they denied all the family passports and said that giving us passports would threaten national security. As for my laptop, they seized everything I had on the way here, laptop, papers, diaries, etc. It’s very strange, but what are we going to do about it.

CP: How would you respond to claims that you “willingly participated and contributed both directly and indirectly towards enhancing the ability of Al Qaeda to facilitate its criminal activities”?

ZK: Actually that is very silly. We collected funds in public, people know how much we collected and how much we spent. People were welcome to come and view our projects. Even my father invited CSIS to view our projects and see what they thought of them. If they knew what our projects looked like they would know any money we made was even less than was needed to keep our projects running. My father used every dollar he had to help as many people as he could.

CP: Do you have a message for our readers?

ZK: Just as Muslims we have to stick together and be strong by our Islam. We have to know that Islam is what makes us strong and gives us strength; nothing else, not wealth nor money. So unless we stand together and be proud of who were are, nothing else is going to change. We have to do what we think is right, no matter what the price, because if we wanted Jannah (Paradise), which is the ultimate goal of every Muslim, then we should know that the price for that reward will not be easy. So if our life is easiness and happiness and no hardship, there must be something wrong.

CP: Could you comment on our site?

ZK: I really enjoyed going through it. It was very nice. I think a lot of people should know about it. Everyone should go and take a look at it, because if we don’t feel the agony of our Muslim brothers and sisters, one day it may happen to us and no one will be there to even pray for us.

Zaynab Khadr, thank you for speaking to us.